Monday, October 30, 2006

Well, for what it's worth...

...someone sent us a link showing that our old pal Senor Guppy has been updating his web site.

Check it out before he hacks himself again.


Anonymous said... least, passing off southern pine beetle damage for IBWO scaling is a new idea! Even Auburn hasn't thought of this one.

Bill Pulliam said...

Hmmm... it's so remote and difficult of access that the only way in is by canoe dodging the gators... except for the logging trucks, of course. But since it's so remote that humans never go there, the logging must be taking place via robots in helicopters...

Beetle-killed pine trees that a friggin' nuthatch could pick the bark off of...

So Mr. Smith, if you honestly believe the birds are fine where they are and there's no need to reveal their location or attempt to prove their existence to the world, why the hell are you even posting ANYTHING? Wouldn't it make more sense to have just kept quiet? Isn't your best strategy now to just vanish back into silence?

Anonymous said...

It's all part of the standard pitch, whether it's from the CLO or Chopique or TMGuy.

I/We can see them, you can't.

It's a super-duper remote spot.

The bugs/gators/swamps are deadly.


If your B.S. detector isn't going off on this whole issue, it should be.

Bill Pulliam said...

Guppy man is in a category all to himself; don't slander others with his filth. He's attempted a no holds barred flat out hoax with faked photographs. None of the other prominent names involved in this have crossed (or even approached) that line. And don't even begin to try to equate the promotion of an overly optimistic or narrow-minded interpretation of real data or images with the actual deliberate and conscious fabrication of data and images. There's no comparison.

My BS detector goes off when I read Birdform AND Ivorybill Skeptic; it's running waste deep in all the streets of this city now.

Anonymous said...

The comparison as made is valid.

Cinclodes, CLO, Hill, TMGuy: all talk about how remote their search areas are, even when they aren't.

They all talk about the terrible bugs and how hard (and potentially dangerous) it is to get around, even when most or all of these areas are regularly visited by hunters and fishermen.

They all have special skills that allow them to see the birds where others fail. I guess I can't think of any other rarities that are only visible to select groups.

Valid comparisons. Please don't rebutt my arguments by changing them to include things like faked photos.

Bill Pulliam said...

And overextended slanderous analogies are part of the standard pitch from Nelson and his groupies. As I said, the bullshit is spouting from all holes. Honest discussion left the stage about a year ago.

Bill Pulliam said...

And once again I find myself attempting (hopelessly) to call down the bullshit from both sides. I expect I'll get a threat of a lawsuit from Guppy Man any day now, to balance the one I got from Olivacea.

Anonymous said...

My BS detector goes off when I read Birdform AND Ivorybill Skeptic; it's running waste deep in all the streets of this city now

And how do YOU account for the fact that Birdforum dot Net has been wrong and Ivorybill Skeptic has been right? The IBWO is extinct. When will Bill Pulliam admit that?

Anonymous said...

There was nothing overextended or slanderous about what I said.

And how do YOU account for the fact that Birdforum dot Net has been wrong and Ivorybill Skeptic has been right? The IBWO is extinct. When will Bill Pulliam admit that?

I think that's the source of your real frustration, Mr. Pulliam. I think you want the Bird to be alive, and truly believed it had been found, but are slowly coming to the realization that it's all been a big mistake. So you're frustrated with the one's claiming they have or will aquire "proof," while at the same time you're frustrated with those pointing out that the king has no clothes.

The honest discussion has only been happening recently. Most newspapers are still reporting as fact that the Ivory-bill has been found. The general public still believes it's a proven fact. Clearly it isn't, and that's why the skeptics are rightfully speaking out.

You're judge and jury on Mr. Smith, so I think the rest of us have a right to form our own opinions on the CLO or Auburn or anyone else who makes big claims with extremely weak evidence.

Bill Pulliam said...

I'd suggest you read more of my stuff, including the many places where I conclude that Cornell is full of shit in significant points. Nothing more has been proven on Nelson's conspiracy theory scandal sheet than anywhere else. You may have missed that I stopped participating in Birdforum many many months ago too because the discussions there were information deficient and overloaded with rumor, insult, and conjecture from all sides. Fact is, in my judgement you folks are just as 100% wrong when you claim (for instance) that the Luneau bird is definitevely a PlWO as when Cornell claims it is definitively an IBWO. You are ALL full of shit when you claim 100% certainty about either position here. The same paired delusional schism is active about most other pieces of evidence: Sightings are conclusive, sightings are worthless; audio is IBWOs, audio is Sandhill Cranes and deer bleats. None of these positions have been proven, not a one of them, not either way. There is evidence that has been neither incontrovertable accepted nor incontrovertably disproven. But NO ONE is fucking listening to anyone else anymore, so it has all become an excersize in battling egos, sound bites, and dueling groupthink worth of Bill O'Reilly. THAT is the source of my frustration, if you feel the need to psychoanalyze.

No, Skeptic folks, you are not "right" about ANYTHING anymore than anyone else is.

Well, except BINAC and I are both right when we say Guppy Man is a psycho bozo.

I'm done with this particular comment thread, thanks for your time. Nothing more really that I have to say.

Babble on...

Anonymous said...

Babble on...

Looks like you've outbabbled all the rest of us put together.

Anonymous said...

Munchausen Syndrome by IBWO?

Anonymous said...

Bill, bill, bill,

Don't you see? We are returning to a time when a person can't even suggest that someone MAY have seen an Ivory Bill. We are returning to the time of pre-CLO announcement.

Yes, you are not a nutter from Birdforum dot Net. NO one said you were. In fact, in some ways you are the last reasonable person to give up on the Ivory Bill.

But don't you get it? A reasonable person like you can no longer get by with saying the CLO bird "might be an IBWO". Or that skeptics are wrong when they say it "definitely is a PIWO". If you try, then you are ridiculed. Openly and effectively by the Skeptics.

The time is fast approaching, if not already here, to choose to be a, yes wait for it, a Tom Nelson Skeptic. Or be ridiculed. That's where this issue is going.

Despite your protests, you have to hand it to them. The Skeptics have been right. History will say so.

Anonymous said...

Bill was a nutter at though (username Billbill) until he started patronising some real scientists about what the scientific method means. So he got told to f**k off (metaphorically, of course; nobody would have been that unpleasant to him). Then he threw his toys out of the pram.

Bill Pulliam said...

I guess having made my living as a researcher for a couple of decades, having published solo-authored papers in the flagship journals in my field, and having been a Co-PI on multimegabucks NSF grants doesn't qualify me as a real scientist, then?

Oh wait, now you're going to slam me for boasting about what a genius I am. There's NO way to get ahead or have a real conversation with the birdforum/Nelson etc. crowd. They are the first-year grad students in the seminar who love to pick and fault find and trash every paper they read because THEY are SO much more clever and knowledgeable than the rest of the world.

Bobby said...

Pls. send back a ‘got it’
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